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[Music]

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hello and welcome to episode number 64

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of the point of convergence podcast

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as always i am your host exo academian

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when strange and sophisticated aerial

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vehicles were first spotted buzzing in

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and around our skies in a series of

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flaps during the period of the 1940s

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many assumed these represented the

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visitation of an extraterrestrial

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species

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the beyond next-gen characteristics of

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these advanced craft where they could

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travel at incredible rates of speed

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hover in place and make 90 degree turns

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on a dime suggested to most that these

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could not logically be the property of

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any known nation-state actor

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the technological prowess of these

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so-called unidentified flying objects

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was simply too advanced to be of

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terrestrial origin

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it is therefore not surprising that the

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seemingly logical conclusion that many

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came to

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was that these simply must be visitors

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from beyond our planet

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at first when the barrenness of the

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planets of our own solar system was not

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yet fully realized many assumed these to

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be visiting martians or venusians

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and then as our surveying of the planets

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of our own solar neighborhood showed

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them to be lifeless ufologists and the

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public alike began to wonder from which

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extrasolar source these beings were

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coming from

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but again the assumption was still that

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these must be visitors from outer space

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after all that seemed to be the only

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frontier we had yet to explore

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since those early days of the flying

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saucer phenomenon other and to most more

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exotic hypotheses have arisen

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suggesting these others may be

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interdimensional in nature or perhaps

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even time traveling humans from our

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future

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some researchers suggest both

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extraterrestrials and interdimensionals

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may be in the mix

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in the course of that conversation again

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the assumption has been that these must

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be something non-terrestrial in nature

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because the sophistication of the craft

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themselves suggests no known

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nation-state actor could have developed

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such beyond next-gen technology

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however there is one key assumption

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being made here and that is that it is

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only the known nation-state actors the

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united states russia etc that could

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possibly even get close to this level of

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technological sophistication

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the pertinent question to ask here is is

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that a fair assumption to make

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is it only nation state actors that we

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need to account for

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or is it possible that some other human

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group not usually accounted for could

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actually be responsible for the design

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and development of these ufos or at

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least some of them

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perhaps to many people's surprise there

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is a rather daunting amount of

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historical evidence suggesting the

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possibility that these craft or gain at

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least some of them

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could actually be the property of a

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rogue group of scientifically oriented

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techno-military elites that may have

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broken off from conventional society

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sometime during the middle part of the

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20th century not long after we should

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note the first series of sightings of

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disc-like craft

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but what is the nature of this evidence

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and does it get even close to passing

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muster in terms of suggesting that a

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truly sequestered society might exist in

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our very midst

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is it possible that some of the beyond

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next-gen vehicles that have been spotted

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in our skies might actually be of

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terrestrial origin after all even if

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that terrestrial origin is of a

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non-conventional nature

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one that exists beyond the scope of our

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nation-state global system

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these are the very questions we'll seek

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to engage with in this the 64th episode

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[Music]

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as we begin this week's podcast i want

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to restate something i've said multiple

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times on this podcast and that is that i

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believe it's most likely that the ufo

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phenomenon is a totality comprised of

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different actors from different origins

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i think we should resist the temptation

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to collapse multiple actors and origins

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into one when the data doesn't strongly

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suggest we should do so

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when we even unconsciously proceed with

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the working assumption that it's all one

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thing with one overarching agenda from

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one source it can lead to some strange

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conclusions being drawn from what may

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actually be multiple distinct and

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divergent patterns of behavior within

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the totality of the phenomenon

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now in what we're going to explore today

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i think there are avenues with greater

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credibility and others with less

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credibility

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much of what we will discuss is

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speculative that's a given with much of

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the ufo phenomenon

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but today we will discuss speculative

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threads in terms of our own history

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but one thing i will say is that while i

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am generally not a conspiracy theorist

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proponent

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over time my faith in the mainstream

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conventional story that has been told to

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us in school and whatnot about our

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history has suffered some setbacks you

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could say

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we should remember that history is told

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through the viewpoint of the victors and

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of those who continue to hold power

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and as such we should always keep a

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skeptical eye on the spotlight being

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shown from the halls of power

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those of us deeply involved in this

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topic know that project blue book and

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the like make it clear that the

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government has frequently lied to its

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people about highly important

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civilization changing matters it would

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be naive to think that's the only time

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they opted for such a course of

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revisionist history telling

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i titled today's episode the sequestered

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society and this is based very much on

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something richard dolan first proposed

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in his notion of a breakaway

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civilization

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you can actually purchase a short book

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based on a lecture that dolan gave

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describing this

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and this is the description of that

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lecture

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quote

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is there a secret space program that is

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connected in some way to ufos

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in this booklet historian richard dolan

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delves into this question one of the

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most discussed in ufology today

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providing a wealth of data and context

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for the reader he offers his own

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conclusion yes there is indeed such a

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program but this program is not a simple

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extension of the normal operations of

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the us government or military

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much less of nasa

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instead it seems to be the product of

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what dolan has previously termed a

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breakaway civilization

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a radically advanced and increasingly

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separate structure that has access to

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classified science and data denied to

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the rest of us unquote

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so that gives you a sense of what dolan

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means by this notion of a breakaway

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civilization it's a rogue group that may

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have begun within the governments of the

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world the united states nazi germany the

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soviet union etc but at some point broke

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away and became a sequestered society

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functioning independently of any

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nation-state actor now in a moment we'll

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get into the history the details of

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history that suggests such a road group

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may exist

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but before we get there i want to touch

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on some of the data that suggests to me

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the likelihood that such a group might

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exist and it has to do with the nature

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of the ufo crap that have been observed

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or at least some of them

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and even some of the remains that have

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been gathered from supposed ufo crashes

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what i find peculiar when i think about

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some of the technology we see displayed

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with ufos

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is that while it is sophisticated

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compared to our technology it's not so

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beyond what we might get to within a

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generation or two

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and that's just strange when you think

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about the idea that these would be

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extraterrestrial visitors if we're

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talking about an extra solar

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civilization that is visiting us the

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likelihood that they would have

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technology within a few generations of

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ours is very very very low i really

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can't stress that enough when you think

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about the vast age of the cosmos we may

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be interacting with civilizations that

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could be millions or billions of years

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older than us or anywhere in between

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so when you think about how technology

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develops and you think about the notion

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that even luella zondo has suggested

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some of this technology is now

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understood theoretically and that we

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probably could develop it on our own

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within about 50 years or less

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that's very strange again when you think

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about what are the chances that a et

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civilization that just happens to visit

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us is within a few generation cycles of

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our own technology

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i'm not saying all ufos match that

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description but some seem to including

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some of the remains that have been

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gathered from supposed ufo crashes that

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has always been suspect to me has made

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me wonder has made me ask questions and

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when i came across this breakaway

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civilization hypothesis i was surprised

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as i dug deeper how much evidence there

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is at least suggesting the possibility

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that such a rogue group does indeed

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exist

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now as i mentioned earlier much of this

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ties back to the history of nazi germany

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the soviet union and the united states

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and that's because we should remember

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that at the end of the second world war

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the united states and the soviet union

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both gathered former nazi scientists

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people who were at the cutting edge of

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their fields and took them back into

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their own nations and then gave them

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control of their own programs for

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instance space programs when they were

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still part of the military structure and

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nasa didn't yet exist

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now a book that i would highly recommend

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you read if you're interested in this

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series of threads

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is a book called the hunt for zero point

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by nick cook who is an experienced

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aviation writer who knows that of which

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he speaks

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this is the description of that book

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quote

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the atomic bomb was not the only project

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to occupy government scientists during

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the 1940s

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anti-gravity technology originally

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spearheaded by scientists in nazi

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germany was another high priority one

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that still may be in effect today

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now for the first time an acclaimed

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journalist with unprecedented access to

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key sources in the intelligence and

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military communities reveals suppressed

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evidence that tells the story of a quest

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for a discovery that could prove as

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powerful as the atomic bomb

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the hunt for zero point explores the

285
00:11:08,230 --> 00:11:05,600
scientific speculation that zero-point

286
00:11:10,870 --> 00:11:08,240
energy a limitless source of potential

287
00:11:13,750 --> 00:11:10,880
power that may hold the key to defying

288
00:11:16,870 --> 00:11:13,760
and thereby controlling gravity exist in

289
00:11:18,710 --> 00:11:16,880
the universe and can be replicated

290
00:11:21,590 --> 00:11:18,720
the pressure to be the first nation to

291
00:11:23,350 --> 00:11:21,600
harness gravity is immense as it means

292
00:11:26,550 --> 00:11:23,360
having the ability to build military

293
00:11:28,630 --> 00:11:26,560
planes of unlimited speed and range

294
00:11:30,710 --> 00:11:28,640
along with the most deadly weaponry the

295
00:11:33,350 --> 00:11:30,720
world has ever seen

296
00:11:36,630 --> 00:11:33,360
the ideal shape for a gravity-defying

297
00:11:39,110 --> 00:11:36,640
vehicle happens to be a perfect disc

298
00:11:42,310 --> 00:11:39,120
making anti-gravity tests a possible

299
00:11:44,870 --> 00:11:42,320
explanation for numerous ufo sightings

300
00:11:46,389 --> 00:11:44,880
during the past 50 years

301
00:11:48,470 --> 00:11:46,399
drawn from interviews with those

302
00:11:50,949 --> 00:11:48,480
involved in the research and visits to

303
00:11:52,949 --> 00:11:50,959
labs in europe and the united states the

304
00:11:55,350 --> 00:11:52,959
hunt for zero point is a captivating

305
00:11:58,550 --> 00:11:55,360
account of the 20th century's most

306
00:12:01,509 --> 00:11:58,560
puzzling unexplained phenomenon

307
00:12:05,350 --> 00:12:03,670
now while as i mentioned at the outset

308
00:12:06,470 --> 00:12:05,360
much of this information is somewhat

309
00:12:09,269 --> 00:12:06,480
speculative

310
00:12:11,990 --> 00:12:09,279
some of it is very well documented

311
00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:12,000
for instance operation paperclip now

312
00:12:15,350 --> 00:12:13,680
what was that

313
00:12:17,990 --> 00:12:15,360
operation paperclip according to

314
00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:18,000
wikipedia was a secret united states

315
00:12:22,949 --> 00:12:20,160
intelligence program in which more than

316
00:12:26,470 --> 00:12:22,959
sixteen hundred that's one thousand six

317
00:12:29,030 --> 00:12:26,480
hundred nazi german scientists engineers

318
00:12:31,750 --> 00:12:29,040
and technicians were taken from former

319
00:12:34,310 --> 00:12:31,760
nazi germany to the us for government

320
00:12:39,430 --> 00:12:34,320
employment after the end of world war ii

321
00:12:41,509 --> 00:12:39,440
in europe between 1945 and 1959

322
00:12:44,550 --> 00:12:41,519
conducted by the joint intelligence

323
00:12:47,230 --> 00:12:44,560
objectives agency it was largely carried

324
00:12:50,470 --> 00:12:47,240
out by special agents of the us army's

325
00:12:52,150 --> 00:12:50,480
counterintelligence corps cic

326
00:12:54,629 --> 00:12:52,160
many of these personnel were former

327
00:12:56,550 --> 00:12:54,639
members and some were former leaders of

328
00:12:58,389 --> 00:12:56,560
the nazi party

329
00:13:01,269 --> 00:12:58,399
the primary purpose for operation

330
00:13:04,310 --> 00:13:01,279
paperclip was u.s military advantage in

331
00:13:05,590 --> 00:13:04,320
the soviet american cold war and the

332
00:13:07,829 --> 00:13:05,600
space race

333
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:07,839
in a comparable operation the soviet

334
00:13:13,430 --> 00:13:10,560
union relocated more than two thousand

335
00:13:15,509 --> 00:13:13,440
two hundred german specialists a total

336
00:13:18,829 --> 00:13:15,519
of more than six thousand people

337
00:13:21,590 --> 00:13:18,839
including family members with operation

338
00:13:23,069 --> 00:13:21,600
azervakiam during one night on october

339
00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:23,079
22nd

340
00:13:26,389 --> 00:13:24,720
1946

341
00:13:28,629 --> 00:13:26,399
unquote

342
00:13:31,269 --> 00:13:28,639
and this is a key point i want us to pay

343
00:13:33,670 --> 00:13:31,279
attention to here these were not just

344
00:13:36,389 --> 00:13:33,680
low-level nazi scientists who weren't

345
00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:36,399
really affiliated with the party and its

346
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:39,440
pagan cult-like belief system

347
00:13:43,829 --> 00:13:41,760
some of these were very high-ranking

348
00:13:46,230 --> 00:13:43,839
members of the nazi party

349
00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:46,240
ss officers suggesting they actually

350
00:13:52,629 --> 00:13:49,440
were true believers in the pagan cult

351
00:13:53,910 --> 00:13:52,639
like belief system that underpinned

352
00:13:55,430 --> 00:13:53,920
nazism

353
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:55,440
and again we really want to highlight

354
00:14:00,550 --> 00:13:58,320
this point and historian peter lavender

355
00:14:01,590 --> 00:14:00,560
has made this argument in several of his

356
00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:01,600
books

357
00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:05,120
these nazi officers were true believers

358
00:14:08,710 --> 00:14:06,720
what we mean by that is that they

359
00:14:10,550 --> 00:14:08,720
weren't just aligning from one political

360
00:14:13,030 --> 00:14:10,560
system and then switching to another

361
00:14:15,030 --> 00:14:13,040
when they were taken to the u.s system

362
00:14:16,949 --> 00:14:15,040
rather they were true believers in a

363
00:14:19,509 --> 00:14:16,959
pagan dogma

364
00:14:22,230 --> 00:14:19,519
and like any cult-like system that

365
00:14:25,350 --> 00:14:22,240
suggests they are not likely to quickly

366
00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:25,360
abandon that belief system and lavender

367
00:14:29,670 --> 00:14:27,600
argues to the contrary that they

368
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:29,680
actually remained true believers that

369
00:14:34,230 --> 00:14:32,160
many of them never adopted american

370
00:14:36,550 --> 00:14:34,240
identities or western identities they

371
00:14:39,590 --> 00:14:36,560
were nazis to the core believing in the

372
00:14:41,269 --> 00:14:39,600
dogma set from start to finish

373
00:14:44,069 --> 00:14:41,279
and understanding that historical

374
00:14:47,030 --> 00:14:44,079
context helps us understand how perhaps

375
00:14:49,189 --> 00:14:47,040
both ex-nazis in the u.s and other

376
00:14:51,509 --> 00:14:49,199
ex-nazis in the soviet union were

377
00:14:54,150 --> 00:14:51,519
perhaps working behind the scenes

378
00:14:56,629 --> 00:14:54,160
conspiratorially to build a kind of deep

379
00:14:58,870 --> 00:14:56,639
state that was a sub-government

380
00:15:01,269 --> 00:14:58,880
underpinning other governments like the

381
00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:01,279
us and the soviet union suggesting

382
00:15:05,829 --> 00:15:03,680
perhaps that even the space race or at

383
00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:05,839
least the commonly understood narrative

384
00:15:10,470 --> 00:15:08,320
about it was to some degree of farce

385
00:15:12,629 --> 00:15:10,480
that the public had one notion of it and

386
00:15:14,230 --> 00:15:12,639
even political leaders had one notion of

387
00:15:16,150 --> 00:15:14,240
it but actually much of it was

388
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:16,160
controlled according to this narrative

389
00:15:22,310 --> 00:15:19,680
anyway by these ex-nazis both in the u.s

390
00:15:24,949 --> 00:15:22,320
and the soviet union who remained true

391
00:15:27,829 --> 00:15:24,959
believers of the pagan cult system of

392
00:15:29,430 --> 00:15:27,839
nazism now as i mentioned previously

393
00:15:31,350 --> 00:15:29,440
it's important to remember that the

394
00:15:34,069 --> 00:15:31,360
rocket technology we were developing

395
00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:34,079
when we took these nazis and put people

396
00:15:38,870 --> 00:15:36,480
like vermour von braun in charge of our

397
00:15:42,310 --> 00:15:38,880
space program this was still a military

398
00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:42,320
structure nasa was only launched later

399
00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:45,120
on as a civilian organization and many

400
00:15:48,710 --> 00:15:46,720
argued that that was really a change in

401
00:15:50,949 --> 00:15:48,720
name only that the same people were

402
00:15:53,030 --> 00:15:50,959
still running it and largely doing so

403
00:15:55,350 --> 00:15:53,040
behind the scenes and without much

404
00:15:58,389 --> 00:15:55,360
oversight one of the arguments that

405
00:16:00,629 --> 00:15:58,399
several historians make is that it's

406
00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:00,639
surprising how little oversight these

407
00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:03,360
nazis had within the us for instance

408
00:16:08,150 --> 00:16:05,440
considering they were actually former

409
00:16:10,550 --> 00:16:08,160
enemies so in other words if they wanted

410
00:16:13,189 --> 00:16:10,560
to be in collusion with another group of

411
00:16:14,949 --> 00:16:13,199
ex-nazis in the soviet union forming a

412
00:16:17,350 --> 00:16:14,959
kind of rogue government that was

413
00:16:19,269 --> 00:16:17,360
actually controlling the space program

414
00:16:21,430 --> 00:16:19,279
behind the scenes it seems like

415
00:16:23,590 --> 00:16:21,440
historically that could be possible they

416
00:16:24,790 --> 00:16:23,600
really were not given the oversight they

417
00:16:27,110 --> 00:16:24,800
should have been and that you would

418
00:16:29,670 --> 00:16:27,120
expect them to have been

419
00:16:33,030 --> 00:16:29,680
and some historians like lavender and

420
00:16:35,110 --> 00:16:33,040
dolan and jason reza giorgiani suggest

421
00:16:38,310 --> 00:16:35,120
that it is during this period that the

422
00:16:39,749 --> 00:16:38,320
so-called secret space program was truly

423
00:16:41,629 --> 00:16:39,759
born

424
00:16:44,550 --> 00:16:41,639
and in terms of the build-up of the

425
00:16:45,990 --> 00:16:44,560
military-industrial complex in general

426
00:16:48,389 --> 00:16:46,000
that began

427
00:16:50,870 --> 00:16:48,399
in the late 40s and went into the 1960s

428
00:16:52,629 --> 00:16:50,880
and beyond were reminded of course of

429
00:16:55,110 --> 00:16:52,639
the warning that president dwight

430
00:16:58,629 --> 00:16:55,120
eisenhower gave on his farewell address

431
00:17:00,550 --> 00:16:58,639
in 1961 when he said quote in the

432
00:17:02,870 --> 00:17:00,560
councils of government we must guard

433
00:17:05,909 --> 00:17:02,880
against the acquisition of unwarranted

434
00:17:08,789 --> 00:17:05,919
influence whether sought or unsought by

435
00:17:11,110 --> 00:17:08,799
the military-industrial complex the

436
00:17:14,710 --> 00:17:11,120
potential for the disastrous rise of

437
00:17:16,150 --> 00:17:14,720
misplaced power exists and will persist

438
00:17:18,150 --> 00:17:16,160
unquote

439
00:17:20,069 --> 00:17:18,160
and this speaks to eisenhower's sense

440
00:17:21,510 --> 00:17:20,079
that there was a vast structure a

441
00:17:23,829 --> 00:17:21,520
growing structure the

442
00:17:26,390 --> 00:17:23,839
military-industrial complex as he called

443
00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:26,400
it which was running amok that was

444
00:17:32,310 --> 00:17:29,280
building in power and influence almost

445
00:17:34,950 --> 00:17:32,320
exponentially and largely unchecked and

446
00:17:38,390 --> 00:17:34,960
he warned the american people of this in

447
00:17:40,230 --> 00:17:38,400
his farewell address in 1961

448
00:17:42,789 --> 00:17:40,240
and it's certainly worth noting that if

449
00:17:45,029 --> 00:17:42,799
even an american president is concerned

450
00:17:47,350 --> 00:17:45,039
about this and offering this as a

451
00:17:49,190 --> 00:17:47,360
warning at his farewell address it

452
00:17:51,430 --> 00:17:49,200
certainly should raise eyebrows about

453
00:17:54,310 --> 00:17:51,440
the nature of the power structure of our

454
00:17:55,909 --> 00:17:54,320
government especially in deeply embedded

455
00:17:58,150 --> 00:17:55,919
circles

456
00:17:59,909 --> 00:17:58,160
now what might we look to in terms of

457
00:18:03,190 --> 00:17:59,919
evidence suggesting there was some sort

458
00:18:05,110 --> 00:18:03,200
of collusion between ex-nazi scientists

459
00:18:07,029 --> 00:18:05,120
in both the soviet union

460
00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:07,039
and the american government that were

461
00:18:11,669 --> 00:18:09,280
actually running the space race behind

462
00:18:14,230 --> 00:18:11,679
the scenes and only putting forward a

463
00:18:15,830 --> 00:18:14,240
farce of a narrative for everyone else

464
00:18:18,150 --> 00:18:15,840
to digest

465
00:18:20,789 --> 00:18:18,160
well what lavender peter levinda points

466
00:18:23,350 --> 00:18:20,799
to is the fact that sputnik was the

467
00:18:25,830 --> 00:18:23,360
first artificial earth satellite put

468
00:18:30,549 --> 00:18:25,840
into orbit and of course that was by the

469
00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:30,559
soviets that was in october 1957

470
00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:32,880
he argues if we had the creme de la

471
00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:35,280
creme of the nazi scientists running our

472
00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:36,640
rocket program

473
00:18:41,270 --> 00:18:39,200
why was it that the soviets managed to

474
00:18:43,830 --> 00:18:41,280
launch an artificial earth satellite

475
00:18:45,909 --> 00:18:43,840
first that seems suspect according to

476
00:18:47,510 --> 00:18:45,919
his understanding and he thinks it

477
00:18:50,070 --> 00:18:47,520
suggests that there was a collusion

478
00:18:52,150 --> 00:18:50,080
going on and that perhaps even the nazi

479
00:18:53,909 --> 00:18:52,160
scientists running our rocket program

480
00:18:56,950 --> 00:18:53,919
and then later nasa when it became a

481
00:18:58,789 --> 00:18:56,960
civilian organization again only in name

482
00:19:01,590 --> 00:18:58,799
is that the nazi scientists running it

483
00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:01,600
weren't even really trying and perhaps

484
00:19:06,390 --> 00:19:03,760
no one else had the expertise to realize

485
00:19:08,470 --> 00:19:06,400
that perhaps they were just stalling and

486
00:19:10,390 --> 00:19:08,480
letting the soviet side get ahead

487
00:19:12,630 --> 00:19:10,400
because that was part of their

488
00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:12,640
overarching plan

489
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:14,960
now earlier we talked about nick cook's

490
00:19:19,669 --> 00:19:17,760
excellent book the hunt for zero point

491
00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:19,679
which discussed the possibility that the

492
00:19:24,470 --> 00:19:22,320
nazis were on the verge or perhaps had

493
00:19:25,750 --> 00:19:24,480
achieved a breakthrough in this

494
00:19:27,430 --> 00:19:25,760
technology

495
00:19:29,510 --> 00:19:27,440
which again would not only shear

496
00:19:31,430 --> 00:19:29,520
space-time and create space-time

497
00:19:34,310 --> 00:19:31,440
distortion as a result

498
00:19:36,710 --> 00:19:34,320
but would perhaps open a vortex allowing

499
00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:36,720
for the channeling of an unlimited

500
00:19:40,789 --> 00:19:38,880
source of energy

501
00:19:43,430 --> 00:19:40,799
now the actual device we're speaking

502
00:19:45,669 --> 00:19:43,440
about here is called diglock which is

503
00:19:47,990 --> 00:19:45,679
german for the bell this is often

504
00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:48,000
referred to as the nazi bell because it

505
00:19:52,870 --> 00:19:50,160
was a bell-shaped device with

506
00:19:55,350 --> 00:19:52,880
counter-rotating drums and the notion

507
00:19:56,549 --> 00:19:55,360
here was that it used electromagnetic

508
00:19:58,870 --> 00:19:56,559
stresses

509
00:19:59,830 --> 00:19:58,880
and subjected these to the serum within

510
00:20:02,310 --> 00:19:59,840
the bell

511
00:20:04,950 --> 00:20:02,320
which made a change at a quantum level

512
00:20:07,350 --> 00:20:04,960
opening a vortex as in a supermassive

513
00:20:10,149 --> 00:20:07,360
black hole which then functioned

514
00:20:13,190 --> 00:20:10,159
hypothetically anyway like a power plant

515
00:20:14,870 --> 00:20:13,200
providing unlimited free energy

516
00:20:16,470 --> 00:20:14,880
so again the implication here is not

517
00:20:18,549 --> 00:20:16,480
only that you would have free energy

518
00:20:20,549 --> 00:20:18,559
that once you've expended the energy to

519
00:20:22,149 --> 00:20:20,559
open the vortex from then on you could

520
00:20:25,190 --> 00:20:22,159
pull free energy

521
00:20:28,310 --> 00:20:25,200
from the ether so to speak forever

522
00:20:30,149 --> 00:20:28,320
but it also as a byproduct because the

523
00:20:31,350 --> 00:20:30,159
forces actually sheared space time

524
00:20:34,230 --> 00:20:31,360
itself

525
00:20:36,870 --> 00:20:34,240
allowed even for the possibility of time

526
00:20:40,630 --> 00:20:36,880
travel and that's why this was titled by

527
00:20:43,510 --> 00:20:40,640
the nazis project kronos named of course

528
00:20:45,669 --> 00:20:43,520
after the greek god of time

529
00:20:46,710 --> 00:20:45,679
now speaking of the possibility of time

530
00:20:49,510 --> 00:20:46,720
travel

531
00:20:52,310 --> 00:20:49,520
some theorists some researchers such as

532
00:20:55,909 --> 00:20:52,320
jason reza giorgiani have suggested that

533
00:20:57,750 --> 00:20:55,919
perhaps these nazis both within the us

534
00:21:00,310 --> 00:20:57,760
government and the soviet government

535
00:21:03,510 --> 00:21:00,320
became aware of the likelihood or

536
00:21:06,710 --> 00:21:03,520
perhaps even the definite eventuality of

537
00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:06,720
catastrophic climate change on the earth

538
00:21:10,470 --> 00:21:08,880
and this led these elites to prepare for

539
00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:10,480
life elsewhere

540
00:21:15,510 --> 00:21:12,480
and some have suggested this may have

541
00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:15,520
been the planet mars but not mars of

542
00:21:20,470 --> 00:21:18,000
today but rather mars of the distant

543
00:21:23,350 --> 00:21:20,480
past when it was a vibrant flourishing

544
00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:23,360
planet with a sustaining atmosphere much

545
00:21:26,710 --> 00:21:24,720
like earth

546
00:21:29,029 --> 00:21:26,720
and of course this fits him with the

547
00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:29,039
secret space program narrative

548
00:21:34,789 --> 00:21:31,679
suggesting that actually some of these

549
00:21:38,630 --> 00:21:34,799
elites managed to achieve space travel

550
00:21:40,870 --> 00:21:38,640
to mars as early as the 1960s

551
00:21:42,549 --> 00:21:40,880
now in addition to the nazi scientists

552
00:21:44,789 --> 00:21:42,559
that were recruited by both the united

553
00:21:46,470 --> 00:21:44,799
states and the soviet union at the close

554
00:21:48,630 --> 00:21:46,480
of world war ii

555
00:21:51,110 --> 00:21:48,640
we should remember that many nazis

556
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:51,120
escaped to south america and even to the

557
00:21:55,590 --> 00:21:53,280
middle east apparently there is a fair

558
00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:55,600
amount of evidence that these nazis

559
00:22:01,590 --> 00:21:58,000
managed to populate places such as

560
00:22:03,430 --> 00:22:01,600
argentina paraguay uruguay etc

561
00:22:06,789 --> 00:22:03,440
and when you think about how far south

562
00:22:08,710 --> 00:22:06,799
argentina is geographically we also

563
00:22:11,430 --> 00:22:08,720
think of the fact that there are rumors

564
00:22:14,310 --> 00:22:11,440
again that there may even be secret nazi

565
00:22:16,789 --> 00:22:14,320
bases in antarctica and of course part

566
00:22:19,990 --> 00:22:16,799
of those rumors include the notion of

567
00:22:22,710 --> 00:22:20,000
flying saucers that are stored in secret

568
00:22:25,029 --> 00:22:22,720
subterranean bases there

569
00:22:26,470 --> 00:22:25,039
now interestingly in potential support

570
00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:26,480
of this notion

571
00:22:30,630 --> 00:22:28,640
one can find evidence that google earth

572
00:22:33,190 --> 00:22:30,640
for instance blocks out certain

573
00:22:34,470 --> 00:22:33,200
high-definition views of parts of

574
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:34,480
antarctica

575
00:22:38,950 --> 00:22:37,200
again this raises the question why

576
00:22:41,029 --> 00:22:38,960
now perhaps these are secret american

577
00:22:43,270 --> 00:22:41,039
bases or something like that

578
00:22:45,750 --> 00:22:43,280
but nevertheless it raises the question

579
00:22:47,590 --> 00:22:45,760
something seems to be there justifying

580
00:22:48,870 --> 00:22:47,600
the blocking out of high definition

581
00:22:50,950 --> 00:22:48,880
views

582
00:22:53,750 --> 00:22:50,960
now speaking of the nazis and the

583
00:22:56,230 --> 00:22:53,760
development perhaps of flying saucers we

584
00:22:58,390 --> 00:22:56,240
noted earlier that apparently the ideal

585
00:23:00,470 --> 00:22:58,400
shape for an advanced craft was

586
00:23:01,990 --> 00:23:00,480
determined to be a disc

587
00:23:04,950 --> 00:23:02,000
and this has to do with something that's

588
00:23:07,190 --> 00:23:04,960
called the suction of the boundary layer

589
00:23:09,510 --> 00:23:07,200
basically this refers to how resistance

590
00:23:11,750 --> 00:23:09,520
builds up around wings when planes are

591
00:23:14,870 --> 00:23:11,760
flying at high speeds now originally

592
00:23:17,110 --> 00:23:14,880
slots were used to remove excess air but

593
00:23:19,190 --> 00:23:17,120
the reason a disc is the perfect shape

594
00:23:21,430 --> 00:23:19,200
the ideal shape is that you can equally

595
00:23:23,430 --> 00:23:21,440
distribute the air resistance around the

596
00:23:26,950 --> 00:23:23,440
entire craft and according to some of

597
00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:26,960
the rumors the nazi technology used disc

598
00:23:32,070 --> 00:23:29,919
shape craft and used slots at equal

599
00:23:35,270 --> 00:23:32,080
positions around the entire perimeter of

600
00:23:37,430 --> 00:23:35,280
the structure to remove excess air

601
00:23:39,590 --> 00:23:37,440
not only did this allow for maximum

602
00:23:42,070 --> 00:23:39,600
speed because it took away the air

603
00:23:44,710 --> 00:23:42,080
resistance but it also allowed for

604
00:23:46,549 --> 00:23:44,720
maximum maneuverability and again we

605
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:46,559
think about these 90 degree turns that

606
00:23:50,470 --> 00:23:48,960
some of these craft have been observed

607
00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:50,480
making

608
00:23:55,190 --> 00:23:52,080
so what we basically have here

609
00:23:57,669 --> 00:23:55,200
apparently hypothetically is technology

610
00:23:59,510 --> 00:23:57,679
of flying saucers that combined this

611
00:24:01,990 --> 00:23:59,520
disc shape and the suctioning of the

612
00:24:04,230 --> 00:24:02,000
boundary layer along with the technology

613
00:24:07,430 --> 00:24:04,240
that the nazi bell that the glock

614
00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:07,440
produced via a shearing of space-time

615
00:24:12,149 --> 00:24:09,760
now in terms of potential additional

616
00:24:14,710 --> 00:24:12,159
lines of evidence we might look to

617
00:24:16,630 --> 00:24:14,720
colonel corso's book the day after

618
00:24:18,470 --> 00:24:16,640
roswell in which he discussed the

619
00:24:21,510 --> 00:24:18,480
materials that were found from the

620
00:24:23,830 --> 00:24:21,520
roswell crash now as rumor suggests and

621
00:24:26,070 --> 00:24:23,840
as corso suggests in his book these

622
00:24:29,110 --> 00:24:26,080
materials were then farmed out to u.s

623
00:24:31,269 --> 00:24:29,120
industry to allow the u.s to develop via

624
00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:31,279
reverse engineering technological

625
00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:33,520
advancements that gave it a superiority

626
00:24:37,990 --> 00:24:35,440
over rival nations

627
00:24:40,950 --> 00:24:38,000
now the technology gathered from the

628
00:24:44,230 --> 00:24:40,960
craft debris at roswell

629
00:24:46,390 --> 00:24:44,240
apparently included things like kevlar

630
00:24:47,990 --> 00:24:46,400
night vision lasers

631
00:24:49,590 --> 00:24:48,000
perforated metal

632
00:24:52,230 --> 00:24:49,600
now that was certainly cutting edge

633
00:24:53,990 --> 00:24:52,240
technology for 1947

634
00:24:56,950 --> 00:24:54,000
but not so cutting edge that it would

635
00:24:59,669 --> 00:24:56,960
seem to suggest that the origin source

636
00:25:01,430 --> 00:24:59,679
was of extraterrestrial nature

637
00:25:02,549 --> 00:25:01,440
and what these various theorists are

638
00:25:04,789 --> 00:25:02,559
proposing

639
00:25:07,110 --> 00:25:04,799
is that actually what was recovered

640
00:25:10,149 --> 00:25:07,120
was debris from craft that were being

641
00:25:10,950 --> 00:25:10,159
tested by this breakaway civilization by

642
00:25:13,750 --> 00:25:10,960
this

643
00:25:16,230 --> 00:25:13,760
secret deeply embedded sequestered

644
00:25:19,430 --> 00:25:16,240
society that at this point existed

645
00:25:22,070 --> 00:25:19,440
beyond the purview or control or perhaps

646
00:25:23,190 --> 00:25:22,080
even knowledge of any nation-state

647
00:25:25,669 --> 00:25:23,200
player

648
00:25:28,789 --> 00:25:25,679
furthermore again theorists such as

649
00:25:31,110 --> 00:25:28,799
giorgiani suggest that even the cover

650
00:25:33,350 --> 00:25:31,120
stories for the roswell crash

651
00:25:35,830 --> 00:25:33,360
point to the possibility that some

652
00:25:38,070 --> 00:25:35,840
segments of the us government became

653
00:25:41,029 --> 00:25:38,080
aware that this was of terrestrial

654
00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:41,039
origin but not of a nation-state actor

655
00:25:45,269 --> 00:25:43,120
and that in addition to offering cover

656
00:25:48,549 --> 00:25:45,279
stories such as weather balloons the

657
00:25:51,510 --> 00:25:48,559
alien ufo narrative was also a cover

658
00:25:54,630 --> 00:25:51,520
story to cover over the fact that

659
00:25:57,510 --> 00:25:54,640
a powerful non-nation-state player had

660
00:26:00,549 --> 00:25:57,520
the ability to fly into u.s airspace and

661
00:26:02,870 --> 00:26:00,559
access a highly restricted nuclear

662
00:26:05,909 --> 00:26:02,880
facility because again at that point

663
00:26:08,230 --> 00:26:05,919
roswell was a key location of the u.s

664
00:26:09,830 --> 00:26:08,240
nuclear arsenal this is not something

665
00:26:13,029 --> 00:26:09,840
the u.s government would have wanted to

666
00:26:14,870 --> 00:26:13,039
admit to its people so the suggestion is

667
00:26:18,310 --> 00:26:14,880
again according to some theorists that

668
00:26:19,830 --> 00:26:18,320
even the ufo et explanation was actually

669
00:26:23,190 --> 00:26:19,840
a cover story

670
00:26:26,230 --> 00:26:23,200
to hide what was actually going on

671
00:26:28,230 --> 00:26:26,240
now speaking of interaction between ufos

672
00:26:30,789 --> 00:26:28,240
and nuclear facilities we would be

673
00:26:33,350 --> 00:26:30,799
remiss to not also discuss the fact that

674
00:26:34,470 --> 00:26:33,360
this has happened historically many many

675
00:26:36,310 --> 00:26:34,480
times

676
00:26:39,029 --> 00:26:36,320
robert hastings for instance has

677
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:39,039
documented this time and time again

678
00:26:44,149 --> 00:26:41,520
where ufos show up at sensitive nuclear

679
00:26:46,870 --> 00:26:44,159
facilities and not only do they show up

680
00:26:49,190 --> 00:26:46,880
but they're able to at their will

681
00:26:51,430 --> 00:26:49,200
shut down our nuclear warheads and

682
00:26:52,630 --> 00:26:51,440
they've also done this in the soviet

683
00:26:55,510 --> 00:26:52,640
union

684
00:26:58,870 --> 00:26:55,520
so some actor is apparently showing up

685
00:27:01,750 --> 00:26:58,880
and controlling manipulating both the us

686
00:27:05,269 --> 00:27:01,760
and the soviet nuclear arsenal

687
00:27:07,269 --> 00:27:05,279
now what if perhaps it is this rogue

688
00:27:09,430 --> 00:27:07,279
breakaway civilization

689
00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:09,440
and that counter to the common narrative

690
00:27:14,070 --> 00:27:11,840
that perhaps this is aliens from an

691
00:27:16,070 --> 00:27:14,080
extraterrestrial source trying to send

692
00:27:17,750 --> 00:27:16,080
us some coded message about the danger

693
00:27:19,630 --> 00:27:17,760
of our nuclear weapons

694
00:27:22,149 --> 00:27:19,640
what if instead it is this

695
00:27:23,990 --> 00:27:22,159
non-nation-state player this breakaway

696
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:24,000
civilization that has reached a level of

697
00:27:29,029 --> 00:27:26,159
technological sophistication

698
00:27:31,190 --> 00:27:29,039
far beyond conventional society and that

699
00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:31,200
actually what they are doing is a dry

700
00:27:37,110 --> 00:27:34,240
run to make sure they can control the

701
00:27:39,190 --> 00:27:37,120
entire nuclear capabilities of all

702
00:27:40,950 --> 00:27:39,200
nation-state players

703
00:27:43,510 --> 00:27:40,960
i think that's a counter-explanation

704
00:27:45,590 --> 00:27:43,520
that we at least have to consider

705
00:27:48,710 --> 00:27:45,600
and by the way perhaps you're wondering

706
00:27:50,230 --> 00:27:48,720
if nazi germany had fallen at the point

707
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:50,240
that the craft were observed for

708
00:27:54,630 --> 00:27:52,320
instance in 1947

709
00:27:57,029 --> 00:27:54,640
by kenneth arnold near mount ray near

710
00:28:00,310 --> 00:27:57,039
washington let us not forget that there

711
00:28:03,750 --> 00:28:00,320
still existed a fascist dictatorship in

712
00:28:05,190 --> 00:28:03,760
europe this was francisco franco's reign

713
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:05,200
in spain

714
00:28:10,950 --> 00:28:07,840
and apparently as rumor has it they were

715
00:28:13,590 --> 00:28:10,960
actually developing disc like technology

716
00:28:16,230 --> 00:28:13,600
flying saucers were being developed by

717
00:28:18,789 --> 00:28:16,240
spain at this time right around the same

718
00:28:21,029 --> 00:28:18,799
time that the first ufo sightings were

719
00:28:23,350 --> 00:28:21,039
spotted in the united states that at

720
00:28:25,269 --> 00:28:23,360
least offers a possibility of a

721
00:28:27,029 --> 00:28:25,279
terrestrial origin for these flying

722
00:28:29,510 --> 00:28:27,039
saucers which again would be an

723
00:28:31,590 --> 00:28:29,520
extension of the technology that had

724
00:28:32,630 --> 00:28:31,600
been developed by the nazis during the

725
00:28:34,710 --> 00:28:32,640
war

726
00:28:36,950 --> 00:28:34,720
and of course let us not forget that

727
00:28:39,750 --> 00:28:36,960
spain of course is spanish-speaking and

728
00:28:43,430 --> 00:28:39,760
so is argentina and other places that

729
00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:43,440
these nazis apparently escape to

730
00:28:48,070 --> 00:28:46,080
one final historical point of note that

731
00:28:50,789 --> 00:28:48,080
may relate to all of this

732
00:28:54,070 --> 00:28:50,799
is that of the strange airship sightings

733
00:28:56,549 --> 00:28:54,080
that happened in the late 19th and early

734
00:28:59,350 --> 00:28:56,559
20th century both in places like the

735
00:29:00,470 --> 00:28:59,360
american southwest and places in south

736
00:29:02,070 --> 00:29:00,480
america

737
00:29:04,710 --> 00:29:02,080
if you think back to some of those

738
00:29:07,350 --> 00:29:04,720
strange stories sometimes these craft

739
00:29:10,310 --> 00:29:07,360
that looked next gen at the time but

740
00:29:12,870 --> 00:29:10,320
still terrestrial in nature involved

741
00:29:15,269 --> 00:29:12,880
human beings landing asking for basic

742
00:29:17,510 --> 00:29:15,279
supplies like water and such and even

743
00:29:18,549 --> 00:29:17,520
offering various farmers in texas for

744
00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:18,559
instance

745
00:29:23,510 --> 00:29:21,200
rides to places like south america at

746
00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:23,520
what was considered then remarkable

747
00:29:26,549 --> 00:29:24,720
speeds

748
00:29:29,110 --> 00:29:26,559
when asked about these craft and where

749
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:29,120
they come from it was suggested that

750
00:29:33,269 --> 00:29:31,520
prussian nationalists were backing

751
00:29:36,070 --> 00:29:33,279
this technology that was being developed

752
00:29:37,549 --> 00:29:36,080
in places like sonora california by a

753
00:29:40,070 --> 00:29:37,559
group that involved a kind of

754
00:29:42,549 --> 00:29:40,080
transatlantic cooperation between

755
00:29:45,029 --> 00:29:42,559
germanic and american sources that had

756
00:29:47,510 --> 00:29:45,039
deep ancestral links to prussian

757
00:29:50,149 --> 00:29:47,520
nationalism in other words both in

758
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:50,159
america and in germany there was this

759
00:29:53,510 --> 00:29:52,240
common link of this deep prussian

760
00:29:56,149 --> 00:29:53,520
background

761
00:29:59,669 --> 00:29:56,159
and some very well-known americans like

762
00:30:01,830 --> 00:29:59,679
rockefeller and ford and dulles allen

763
00:30:05,110 --> 00:30:01,840
dillis the first civilian director of

764
00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:05,120
the central intelligence agency the cia

765
00:30:09,909 --> 00:30:07,200
and the famous american investment

766
00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:09,919
banker j.p morgan

767
00:30:15,909 --> 00:30:12,480
were highly involved in funding the

768
00:30:18,070 --> 00:30:15,919
early rise of nazi germany henry ford

769
00:30:20,549 --> 00:30:18,080
has been known to be involved with

770
00:30:22,310 --> 00:30:20,559
anti-semitic literature again not only

771
00:30:25,029 --> 00:30:22,320
did their ancestral roots go back to

772
00:30:27,510 --> 00:30:25,039
germany but they were actually funding

773
00:30:30,070 --> 00:30:27,520
prussian nationalists in germany and

774
00:30:31,269 --> 00:30:30,080
they themselves had prussian nationalist

775
00:30:34,149 --> 00:30:31,279
backgrounds

776
00:30:36,230 --> 00:30:34,159
again suggesting a transatlantic nexus

777
00:30:38,549 --> 00:30:36,240
that was perhaps planting the early

778
00:30:40,870 --> 00:30:38,559
seeds for this future breakaway

779
00:30:42,950 --> 00:30:40,880
civilization

780
00:30:45,430 --> 00:30:42,960
now as we draw this episode to a

781
00:30:47,669 --> 00:30:45,440
conclusion i would say that while it may

782
00:30:49,909 --> 00:30:47,679
seem a stretch to consider these various

783
00:30:53,190 --> 00:30:49,919
threads of what we might call alt

784
00:30:54,950 --> 00:30:53,200
history as being legitimate genuine

785
00:30:57,430 --> 00:30:54,960
actually historical

786
00:30:59,830 --> 00:30:57,440
it's worth noting that if the technology

787
00:31:02,389 --> 00:30:59,840
to harness zero-point energy and to

788
00:31:04,549 --> 00:31:02,399
therefore manipulate space-time was

789
00:31:07,990 --> 00:31:04,559
achieved at some point during the 20th

790
00:31:11,029 --> 00:31:08,000
century by some deeply black scientific

791
00:31:13,990 --> 00:31:11,039
techno-elites the implications would be

792
00:31:15,990 --> 00:31:14,000
profound and incredibly far-reaching

793
00:31:18,630 --> 00:31:16,000
allowing for not only the harnessing of

794
00:31:21,190 --> 00:31:18,640
limitless power but also the creation of

795
00:31:24,710 --> 00:31:21,200
devices resembling the shape and

796
00:31:27,430 --> 00:31:24,720
capabilities of classical ufos

797
00:31:30,789 --> 00:31:27,440
while also making possible time travel

798
00:31:32,789 --> 00:31:30,799
and thus of history manipulation that at

799
00:31:34,710 --> 00:31:32,799
least could happen without the rest of

800
00:31:37,509 --> 00:31:34,720
the conventional nation-state

801
00:31:39,110 --> 00:31:37,519
civilization structure being any the

802
00:31:42,070 --> 00:31:39,120
wiser

803
00:31:43,750 --> 00:31:42,080
speculative yes absolutely

804
00:31:46,230 --> 00:31:43,760
worth considering as yet another

805
00:31:49,669 --> 00:31:46,240
possible thread within the totality of

806
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:49,679
the tapestry we call the ufo phenomenon

807
00:31:54,710 --> 00:31:52,080
absolutely i believe we should answer

808
00:31:57,590 --> 00:31:54,720
that in the affirmative

809
00:31:59,509 --> 00:31:57,600
and on that note we've come to the close

810
00:32:01,350 --> 00:31:59,519
of another edition of the point of

811
00:32:03,269 --> 00:32:01,360
convergence podcast

812
00:32:06,710 --> 00:32:03,279
if you'd like to support this podcast

813
00:32:09,110 --> 00:32:06,720
you can do so by going to patreon.com

814
00:32:11,350 --> 00:32:09,120
exo academian

815
00:32:13,190 --> 00:32:11,360
but until next time friends from deep

816
00:32:16,710 --> 00:32:13,200
within the blue ridge mountains of north